The Sun’s Position at Time of Birth in Maya
Recently we were asked why we removed a question regarding the position of the sun at the time of birth. In this article I’d like to explain why.
Some background information
First of all, I need to explain the background of the situation a little bit.
Due to different factors, the Mayan culture has many discrepancies within itself. And the Mayan calendars are not excluded in this. These factors include geography, time or simply subjectivity.
There are many different interpretations
For example, Yucatan culture and the Kiche culture, may have different names for the same signs. I.e. one of the names of the 8th sign is Seed in Yucatan. However in the Kiche way, that sign is called Net and Seed is the name of another one, the 8th, which is called Rabbit, in the Yucatan way.
This 4th and 8th in the order of signs are also relative. In Yucatan count, Alligator (Crocodile) is the first sign. While in the Kiche, Monkey is the first sign. In Yucatan way, 1 Alligator is the beginning of the Tzolkin cycle. But in Kiche, it is 8 Monkey. Therefore they make celebrations on this day.
This continues on to the directions of the signs, different ways of counting the Year Bearers, and the shift point of one sign to the next is another. This may even vary from one Daykeeper to another, and the modern experts on the subject are yet to find an agreement.
Considering the position of the sun
In the very beginning I was taking the midnight hour as the shift point, meaning the birthday of the person clearly shows the sign of the person.
As I researched more, I see that the position of the sun matters, and if the person is born between midnight and sunrise (actually if the sun is not there but first rays lighten up the sky, it would enough) he/she might still be influenced by the previous day’s energy.
Part of the problem is that many aspects of the Mayan culture are either lost or kept as a secret and not shared with foreigners.
Nowadays more and more knowledge is being shared by the Mayan Daykeepers. Therefore ideas have been changing since 2006 when I was doing my first readings and since 2011-2012 when I built my websites.
Recently two new ideas have been getting public attention, while discussions about them are going on:
- When considering the sign of the person, the sunset matters, not the sunrise. Therefore, if the person is born after sunset, but before midnight, he/she is influenced by the following day’s energy.
- If the person is born from sunset to the sunrise, he/she is influenced by the both signs.
Using your intuition
So, as you see, the topic is quite confusing and there are many opinions. Even among the Mayas themselves.
In the end of the day, intuition, and especially intuition about one’s own self is the first and utmost important factor of decision. Therefore, I recommend reading both signs and try to see/feel which one resonates with you.
I would suggest you check the Mayan Sign that is one day before you were born. But only if you were born in clear darkness between midnight and the dawn, and ONLY if you do not feel a strong resonance with the sign on your actual date of birth.
Otherwise, do not confuse your mind about this.
If you were born after midnight and before sunrise AND you are feeling you are more resonating with the sign of the previous day, then go ahead and purchase your report according to this sign.
If you already purchased your report and set your date of birth on it, please contact us at email@example.com and we will change it for you.
What if you resonate with both of these signs?
If you feel a connection with both signs, then embrace them both and keep following their traces in you.
You may purchase two of the reports, and if over time you feel you are not resonating with one of them, we will refund you one of these reports.
A comment from Kenneth Johnson
Finally, I am sharing a long comment on this issue by Kenneth Johnson, who is my friend, my teacher and author of some of the most important books on the topic.
Note: The full section below is a quote from Kenneth.
What time does the Mayan day begin?
“Here is some writing I did on the topic. When does the Day Begin? Of all the questions I have received over the years, one of the most common is:
What time does the Mayan day begin?
This question is pertinent to all studies in Mayan astrology because it has a bearing on the most essential question of all:
What is my day-sign?
I have seen a great deal of speculation from Western “scientific” types who want to find an exact moment, down to the nano-second, when the day begins. They have developed all kinds of interesting theories!
Unfortunately, none of it is even remotely Mayan conceptually.
Understanding the Mayan language
“In order to understand the Mayan concept of the days, we need to understand a bit of the language as well.
The word for “day” (k’in in Yucatec or q’ij in K’iche’) is exactly the same as the word for “sun.” If I am talking about “this day,” I use the word q’ij. If I want to remark that the sun is hot today and point at that orb in the sky, I also use the word q’ij.
The words are the same because, in Mayan thinking, a day is defined as the course of the sun through the four stations of midnight, dawn, noon and sunset. Here again we see the essential Mayan world view of a fourfold universe coming into play.
It should also be remembered that in Mayan thinking “north” is the same as “up,” and “south” is the same as “down.” Thus dawn = east, noon = north, sunset = west, and midnight = south.
We live in a fourfold reality which is not merely static but forever in motion. This is how it works.”
An example to help clarify
“I am writing these words on the day 11 Chicchan. When the sun goes down this evening, it will mark the moment at which the energy of the day 11 Chicchan crosses into the Underworld, the world of the ancestors and the spirits. The deeper it travels into the Underworld, the more its energy shall wane.
As soon as the sun is down, the energy of the next day, 12 Cimi, will begin to make itself felt. The Daykeepers will light candles and burn incense in their shrine rooms to honor the advent of the day to come, 12 Cimi.
There is no “exact” moment when this takes place. Don Miguel Vicente began his observances as soon as the sun dipped below the horizon. Don Rigoberto Itzep preferred to wait until it was fully dark. It’s a matter of personal preference.
As the sun travels farther into the Underworld, the energy of 11 Chicchan becomes less and less powerful as its essence surrenders to the overwhelming forces of the darker half of the eternal polarity. Somewhere round about midnight, the growing energy of 12 Cimi will become stronger and more powerful than that of the waning 11 Chicchan.
There is no “exact” moment
Scientific minds in search of an “exact moment” for the shifting of the days may perhaps be frustrated with such vagueness, but this is the real Mayan perception of the matter. It is a process rather than an event.
Mayan Daykeepers always calculate horoscopes based on a midnight transition between the days, just as we do. Their reasoning and their world view may be somewhat different, but the result is the same. One should always use midnight as the astrological definition of a day, just as we do here in the west.
Don Rigoberto once remarked that people born shortly before or after midnight often partakes of the qualities of both day-signs, much like those born upon a “cusp” in Western astrology. By the time the dawn arrives, 11 Chicchan will have disappeared completely. 12 Cimi will rule the day alone until sunset, when it too shall pass into the Underworld, and the energy of a new day will begin to make itself felt.”
What about time zones?
“Another frequently asked question is this:
Should I define midnight in terms of my local time zone, or should I adjust it to the time zone for Central America (equivalent to the American CST)?
This question has a bearing on an even more important philosophical issue:
Is the Mayan Calendar indicative of a global energy, a planetary rhythm geared to the rising and setting of the sun wherever we may be in the world? Or is it a kind of time pulse which emanates specifically from the Mayan lands and has a distinct geographical locus?
I wish I could answer this question clearly and unequivocally, but I cannot.
I would be dishonest if I were to tell my readers that Mayan Calendar astrology is a cultural monolith, etched in stone with absolute agreement among all practitioners. This would be very far from the truth.”
A topic of lively debate
“There are just as many “topics of lively debate” in Mayan astrology as there are in Western astrology. This particular issue is one such topic.
No consensus exists among Daykeepers.
Don Rigoberto feels that the day-signs should be calculated according to your local time zone, wherever you may be in the world. Don Audelino Sac believes that one must use Central American time and adjust your calculations accordingly. I don’t remember that I ever asked Don Roberto Poz how he felt about it.
I encourage students to experiment in this respect. If you come across a birth date which would change according to the time zone, try it both ways.
Explore your feelings and your intuition about it. What do you think works best?”
I hope that this article and the excerpt from Kenneth above has helps clarify how you can consider the position of the sun at your time of birth from a Mayan perspective.
If you have any interesting discoveries, let us know in the comments below.
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